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Re: Give it a rest
Posted by caf - March 21, 2003 at 3:56:47pm
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Re: Give it a rest
Posted by Myriam - March 21, 2003 at 12:33:43am:

: I can understand your not wanting to rock the boat of the erroneous teachings of the western church. But! If you are a truth-seeker ! The name that the Angel gave to Miryam(Mary) to call the Holy Child in her womb was not Jesus! The term Jesus was not created until the 13th century AD. This was centuries after the new testament was initially written. The Jewishness of our Lord's name was purposely wiped out of church history because of anti-semitism in the church. You see Jesus(Yeshua, Yahshuah same name) was a Jew. all of his deciples were Jewish.
: They were from the twelve tribes.
: Love
: A truth-seeker

I'm afraid I don't understand your point at all, regarding "rocking the boat". I have no interest in defending "the western church." Presumably you mean by that some entity that developed through processes of human tradition, whether Catholic, or Protestant, or otherwise. I am however very interested in the truth as God presented it through inspired writers in the New Testament, and quite unwilling to see things bound on God's people that do not come from God.

Regarding the name that the angel gave Mary, it is reported to us from original sources in only one language, and that is Greek. Luke was, by all evidence, originally written in Greek. Should we have IESOUS in our Englsh Bibles, which a letter for letter transliteration of the Greek letters into English letters? Or recognize in the etymology that the leading iota in Greek words has become a J in English words, so a more helpful and honest transliteration of the scriptural word is JESOUS. But since the "OU" is a dipthong, the English "u" is actually an accurate equivalent. Ah, but that is really quite the same as the modern rendering "Jesus," isn't it? That is what Luke wrote for Theophilus and succeeding generations. He did not write a Hebrew name or an Aramaic name, he wrote a Greek form, what you get if you transliterate the name into Greek. So did all of the other New Testament writers. No one "wiped out" the "Jewishness" of the Lord's name. What the New Testament writers wrote in the first century, we have. We English speakers have it accurately transliterated from Greek to English. To substitute an Aramaic or Hebrew name is disingenuous at best, dishonest and false when there is an agenda attached. God does not make such issues of language, and never has. He deals with people of all languages and backgrounds, and makes no requirement of anyone to learn the words of other tongues to be his child.

To say that the word "Jesus" was created in the 13th century is also quite disingenous and misleading. Jesus is a good transliteration of the original Greek word. That Greek form has been around since at least the third century B.C. The Septuagint (Greek) version of the Old Testament (translated by Alexandrian Jews) has the same name (IESOUS -- see the book of Joshua, for example) that Luke and all of the (Jewish) New Testament writers used. When Jerome translated the Bible into Latin in the fourth century, how did he spell the Lord's name? Iesus (see the Vulgate, Luke 2:52 for example), which in English becomes Jesus. It is completely untrue to assert that the name Jesus was invented in the 13th century. Wycliffe and later English translators spelled it just as it had already been spelled for centuries.

If you are an Aramaic speaker, a Hebrew conversationalist, a Greek among Greeks, or a German dialoguing with Germans, by all means spell and pronounce the name of the Lord in an understandable and clear way for yourself and the people you speak to. Hopefully you will know and accurately convey who you are talking about. If you are an English speaker among English speakers, again by all means, pronounce and spell the Lord's name in an understandable and clear way. "Jesus" fills that bill very well in the English language, and is completely consistent with the original writings and the whole history of translation.

1 Cor 14:10-12
10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.
(from New International Version)


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